Discussion:
F-14 Turkey?
(too old to reply)
Wlengel
2004-11-26 16:54:27 UTC
Permalink
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it
was referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was
no Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe
it is an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?

Bill
william cogswell
2004-11-26 18:07:17 UTC
Permalink
If you have ever seen one on final approach you would understand it being
called "turkey"
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it was
referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was no
Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe it is
an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
Wlengel
2004-11-26 20:27:00 UTC
Permalink
Pretty ugly????

Bill
Post by william cogswell
If you have ever seen one on final approach you would understand it being
called "turkey"
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F- 14.ImentionedthatIhadnoticeonthisNGthatitwas
referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was no
Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe it is
an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
Red Rider
2004-11-28 00:05:37 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, looks just like a "wild turkey" coming off the roost 60 feet up in a
pine tree. Although the "wild turkey" may not have to flutter around as
much.

Red
Post by william cogswell
If you have ever seen one on final approach you would understand it being
called "turkey"
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it was
referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was no
Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe it is
an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
José Herculano
2004-11-26 20:25:30 UTC
Permalink
It is a very affectionate name. Even those of us - me included - that love
the Tomcat above all other birds call it Turkey.

The quoted origin of the nickname is the look of a Tomcat by the ramp, with
everything down and flying surfaces flapping all over the place.
_____________
José Herculano
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it was
referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was no
Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe it is
an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
Pechs1
2004-11-27 15:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Bill writes-<< I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the
beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it
was referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was
no Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe
it is an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true? >><BR><BR>

I answer-I guess it depends on the pilot/RIO as to whether it was a 'turkey' or
a 'Turkey'. It looks like a big bird trying to land, from the front, with
everything hanging out.
Altho great legs around the boat, I really didn't like it in the 1200 hours I
flew it. VERY complicated, very hard to maintain, tough around small decks,
deployed with only 9 jets on small decks cuz they had Hoovers. That meant
running out of jets during a normal 8 event day was 'normal'.
So I think it was a turkey. Not surprised the engineer liked it, but he didn't
have to cruise with it.
I enjoyed the F-4 much more, both around the boat and not. Better availability
and with the 1527 mod, slats, Awg-10B, smokeless engines, pretty nice jet when
the radar was working. AND the shoulder patch looked better(2300 hours in the
F-4).
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
Charlie Wolf
2004-11-29 20:09:27 UTC
Permalink
IIRC, there where two guys who came up with the original design - both
named Tom. The name Tomcat came from that origin. I believe the
"Turkey" reference would be a derivative of that - i.e., Tom Turkey.

???

I might be wrong.
Regards,
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it
was referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was
no Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe
it is an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
Yofuri
2004-11-29 23:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Wolf
IIRC, there where two guys who came up with the original design - both
named Tom. The name Tomcat came from that origin. I believe the
"Turkey" reference would be a derivative of that - i.e., Tom Turkey.
???
I might be wrong.
Regards,
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it
was referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was
no Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe
it is an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
The most-told story (take your choice of "Toms"):

"VADM Thomas F. Connolly. Serving as Deputy Chief of Naval
Operations for Air, ADM Connolly was under the strictest orders from
Defense Secretary Robert McNamara's civilian team to support McNamara's
concept of a single fighter aircraft design for both the Air Force and
the Navy. This was the infamous TFX in its initial stage (subsequently
designated F-111B for the Navy) which arose from a concept of saving
money on paper without any documentation on how that could be
accomplished in practice, while providing income for a Texas based
aerospace company to help the political fortunes of the vice president
at the time."


"Following years of work and millions spent, it was apparent to
the Navy that the F-111B would never fly from a carrier. A Navy team had
been working surreptitiously on an alternative that would be equipped
with the same weapon system, but no one on the McNamara team would
listen to professional opinion. Finally, in a showdown with Congress on
the budget, following hours of testimony from Secretary of the Navy Paul
Ignatius about how great the F-111B design was, Sen. Stennis asked ADM
Connolly his personal opinion about the aircraft design, assuming it was
equipped with more powerful engines. ADM Connolly leaned forward and
said in the strongest terms that 'There is not enough thrust in all of
Christendom to make a carrier fighter out of this aircraft.'"


"Sen. Stennis took money from the budget for the F-111B on the
spot and authorized what was to become the F-14 or 'Tomcat' which serves
in the fleet today. In his words, ADM Connolly thought he was going to
be fired and thinks Sen. Stennis saved him from that -- but he lost any
chance for his fourth star. Throughout, he was supported in his end run
around the Navy secretary since the chief of naval operations, ADM Tom
Moorer, had authorized such candor prior to the hearings."


From:

http://www.newtotalitarians.com/AtkinsonToStewiePartIV.html
Allen Epps
2004-11-30 00:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wlengel
I have a friend (golfing buddy) who was a engineer back in the beginning
phase of the F-14. I mentioned that I had notice on this NG that it
was referred to as the Turkey. He wasn't happy with that a said it was
no Turkey, great plane. What is the origin of the nick name? I believe
it is an affectionate and not a derogatory name, true?
Bill
Despite some good stories about how the Tomcat got it's name, it seems
to me you're asking how it got the nickname "Turkey". If you look at
one coming at you on the LSO platform with the slats/flaps out and gear
down with the stabilators moving all over the place it does not look
disimilar to a wild turkey coming into land due to it's large fuselage
and seemingly smallish wings from that angle.

Not really meant as an insult anymore than when I call the Prowler
"fighting drumstick" and I had 2200 hours in it.
Pugs
Pechs1
2004-11-30 14:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Interesting that in the USN, anyway, only the F-4 didn't have a "nickname", at
leats while I was in, perhaps the F-8 didn't either-John???. All other jets
did. When I flew the jet for 10 years, it was just the 'Phantom', where all
others were 'Scooters, Dogs, Spads, SLUFs, BUFs, Hoovers, Hummers, BUGs,
Turkeys, etc..

The USAF had many 'names' for the Phantom-Lead Sled, Rhino, being two I
remember.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
Frank Minich
2004-11-30 15:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pechs1
Interesting that in the USN, anyway, only the F-4 didn't have a "nickname"
...

Maybe I missed it, but "Vigi" (does that count as a nickname?) was all I
heard, except when the nose wheel wouldn't line-up with the cat track and a
spin was required - in which case it was the Elephant dance.
Mike Kanze
2004-11-30 17:59:17 UTC
Permalink
An early nickname for the Phantom II (remember - there was an earlier
McDonnell Phantom) was "Double Demon," a reference to the F-4's immediate
McDonnell F3H Demon predecessor.
--
Mike Kanze

"He thinks too much. Such men are dangerous."

- JULIUS CAESAR; Act I, Scene 2.
Post by Pechs1
Interesting that in the USN, anyway, only the F-4 didn't have a "nickname", at
leats while I was in, perhaps the F-8 didn't either-John???. All other jets
did. When I flew the jet for 10 years, it was just the 'Phantom', where all
others were 'Scooters, Dogs, Spads, SLUFs, BUFs, Hoovers, Hummers, BUGs,
Turkeys, etc..
The USAF had many 'names' for the Phantom-Lead Sled, Rhino, being two I
remember.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
vincent p. norris
2004-11-30 04:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Wolf
IIRC, there where two guys who came up with the original design - both
named Tom. The name Tomcat came from that origin.
Don't know about that, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find out
if there wre two Toms. However, don't overlook the fact that Grumman
fighters had been named for cats since the F4F.
Post by Charlie Wolf
The name Tomcat came from that origin.
Possible, I suppose, but Allen Epps' explanation of the origin of
"Turkey" is widely accepted as the correct one.

vince norris
Charlie Wolf
2004-11-30 15:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by vincent p. norris
Post by Charlie Wolf
IIRC, there where two guys who came up with the original design - both
named Tom. The name Tomcat came from that origin.
Don't know about that, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find out
if there wre two Toms. However, don't overlook the fact that Grumman
fighters had been named for cats since the F4F.
Post by Charlie Wolf
The name Tomcat came from that origin.
Possible, I suppose, but Allen Epps' explanation of the origin of
"Turkey" is widely accepted as the correct one.
Yep - I agree. Maybe it's some merging of all of this....
Maybe no one really knows exactly???
Regards,
Post by vincent p. norris
vince norris
Typhoon502
2004-11-30 20:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by vincent p. norris
Post by Charlie Wolf
IIRC, there where two guys who came up with the original design - both
named Tom. The name Tomcat came from that origin.
Don't know about that, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find out
if there wre two Toms. However, don't overlook the fact that Grumman
fighters had been named for cats since the F4F.
I've seen a reference to the early F-14 design as being "Tom's Cat"
and that naturally would have lead to "Tomcat". I think the "Turkey"
was based on the landing appearance but seeing as how "Tom Turkey" was
already in the common vernacular, it's easy to see how maybe some LSOs
could come up with "Tom Turkey" when talking about F-14s in the chute.
So...um, yeah. Probably all of the above.
Prowlus
2004-12-01 13:52:39 UTC
Permalink
Didn't they name it the "turkey" because of the unreliability of the
engines it inherited from the F-111b? Those tf-30s had a tendency to
flameout at times when power was needed but Navy pilots name it the
"turkey" because It was a capable aircraft, but also big, heavy,
somewhat underpowered
WaltBJ
2004-11-30 21:18:00 UTC
Permalink
USAF F4 - "Double Ugly". Although it looked surprising clean nothing
was hanging off of it. Unfortunately when supposedly configured
"clean" the inboard pylons were very rarely removed.
Walt BJ
Bryan Ashcraft
2004-12-09 14:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by WaltBJ
USAF F4 - "Double Ugly". Although it looked surprising clean nothing
was hanging off of it. Unfortunately when supposedly configured
"clean" the inboard pylons were very rarely removed.
Walt BJ
I seem to remember the nickname "Rhino" in the eighties......

BJA
Mike Kanze
2004-12-09 18:13:20 UTC
Permalink
Interesting - but not surprising - that the "Ugly" moniker in one form or
another has been applied to so many aircraft: B-52, A-7, entire A-6 family,
just about any "queer" aircraft, many tankers, most fixed-wing "cats &
dogs," many non-pointy-nose birds, and so on.
--
Mike Kanze

"Never forget ... Being your own boss means being your own janitor."
Post by Bryan Ashcraft
Post by WaltBJ
USAF F4 - "Double Ugly". Although it looked surprising clean nothing
was hanging off of it. Unfortunately when supposedly configured
"clean" the inboard pylons were very rarely removed.
Walt BJ
I seem to remember the nickname "Rhino" in the eighties......
BJA
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