Discussion:
Recall original news stories about Midway
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a425couple
2015-08-28 18:33:50 UTC
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It seems to me, it is worth recalling the original stories of Midway
that purported to be news information.
The "Billy" Mitchell faction in the USAAF is very strong.
They even claimed to have sunk the IJN fleet at Midway
by high level bombing.
When was this?
from:
http://midway-divebomber.blogspot.com/
"I ran through microfilm files of the New York Times. In the week after the
Midway Battle the Times ran a front page headline, "ARMY FLIERS BLASTED
TWO JAP FLEETS AT MIDWAY."

The Times editorialized on June 9: "So far as we can now learn, the main
damage to the Japanese fleet off Midway was inflicted by our land-based
airplanes. The battle shows what land-based air power can do to naval and
air power attacking from the open sea when that land-based air power is
alert, well-trained, courageous, and exists in sufficient quantity."

Secretary of War Henry Stimson recorded complacently "our big bombers have
played a decisive part in the battle and the facility with which they have
hit and injured capital ships of the enemy marks a great change in the
previous view of high altitude bombing. The Navy also got into it with its
carriers. They had rather a hard time with the enemy carriers who
outnumbered them."2

In Japan the survivors of the battle were isolated to keep secret the defeat
suffered by the Imperial Navy. Only the emperor was informed and he chose
not to inform the Army. Army planners, inaccurately briefed about pilot and
carrier losses at Coral Sea and Midway, continued to believe that the
Imperial Combined Fleet was healthy and secure.3

Admiral Nimitz declined to challenge Army Air Force claims for the B-17s or
other published stories about the Battle of Midway. There was no point in
letting the Japanese Navy or the American public know how serious were our
losses or how close to disaster we had come.4

Admiral Nimitz was right in classifying the decisive details of the battle,
and not only as it concerned the Japanese. Under conditions existing at that
time he had to avoid media criticism of his carrier fleet's leaders, and
unnecessary grief for the families of so many pilots and crewmen who had
lost their lives in futile attacks during the battle. The loss of so many of
our first line pilots and crews was staggering. At that stage of the war in
1942 the U.S. Navy needed comforting, not more controversy.

---- long snip of interesting stuff ----

An exhaustive report issued by Admiral King to the Secretary of the Navy in
April of 1944 still credited damage to the Japanese Fleet by the Midway
based aircraft, Army B-17s, torpedo planes, and the submarine Nautilus.
Again the role of the dive bombers was diminished. 16

As I continued my research, pondering the oral histories, first hand books,
web sites, biographies and autobiographies, I began to sense more of the
conditions that might have influenced our Navy's public relations attitudes
at that time. Under the circumstances the story of the dive bombers'
dramatic victory was easily overlooked.

--- snip---
Shortly after the Battle of Midway, Admiral Nimitz's Official Battle Report
was written by him with Commander Ernest Eller, a writer and public
relations expert. James Forestall, Under Secretary of the Navy flew out from
Washington to Pearl Harbor to consult. This was a carefully worded document.
Release was delayed until June 28th allowing the Air Force to grab the early
headlines claiming credit for the victory. "

-- rest is all quite interesting,
jonathan
2015-08-29 06:15:50 UTC
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Post by a425couple
It seems to me, it is worth recalling the original stories of Midway
that purported to be news information.
When I was looking up my dad's war history one
article about his unit had several mistakes
that seemed deliberate to prevent the enemy
from gleaning anything. From reading the article
below I get the impression the military releases
what it wants the enemy to hear.

The only high altitude heavy bomber attack
against a Japanese fleet that I know about
didn't go well at all for our side.
Post by a425couple
The "Billy" Mitchell faction in the USAAF is very strong.
They even claimed to have sunk the IJN fleet at Midway
by high level bombing.
When was this?
http://midway-divebomber.blogspot.com/
"I ran through microfilm files of the New York Times. In the week after the
Midway Battle the Times ran a front page headline, "ARMY FLIERS BLASTED
TWO JAP FLEETS AT MIDWAY."
The Times editorialized on June 9: "So far as we can now learn, the main
damage to the Japanese fleet off Midway was inflicted by our land-based
airplanes. The battle shows what land-based air power can do to naval and
air power attacking from the open sea when that land-based air power is
alert, well-trained, courageous, and exists in sufficient quantity."
Secretary of War Henry Stimson recorded complacently "our big bombers have
played a decisive part in the battle and the facility with which they have
hit and injured capital ships of the enemy marks a great change in the
previous view of high altitude bombing. The Navy also got into it with its
carriers. They had rather a hard time with the enemy carriers who
outnumbered them."2
In Japan the survivors of the battle were isolated to keep secret the defeat
suffered by the Imperial Navy. Only the emperor was informed and he chose
not to inform the Army. Army planners, inaccurately briefed about pilot and
carrier losses at Coral Sea and Midway, continued to believe that the
Imperial Combined Fleet was healthy and secure.3
Admiral Nimitz declined to challenge Army Air Force claims for the B-17s or
other published stories about the Battle of Midway. There was no point in
letting the Japanese Navy or the American public know how serious were our
losses or how close to disaster we had come.4
Admiral Nimitz was right in classifying the decisive details of the battle,
and not only as it concerned the Japanese. Under conditions existing at that
time he had to avoid media criticism of his carrier fleet's leaders, and
unnecessary grief for the families of so many pilots and crewmen who had
lost their lives in futile attacks during the battle. The loss of so many of
our first line pilots and crews was staggering. At that stage of the war in
1942 the U.S. Navy needed comforting, not more controversy.
---- long snip of interesting stuff ----
An exhaustive report issued by Admiral King to the Secretary of the Navy in
April of 1944 still credited damage to the Japanese Fleet by the Midway
based aircraft, Army B-17s, torpedo planes, and the submarine Nautilus.
Again the role of the dive bombers was diminished. 16
As I continued my research, pondering the oral histories, first hand books,
web sites, biographies and autobiographies, I began to sense more of the
conditions that might have influenced our Navy's public relations attitudes
at that time. Under the circumstances the story of the dive bombers'
dramatic victory was easily overlooked.
--- snip---
Shortly after the Battle of Midway, Admiral Nimitz's Official Battle Report
was written by him with Commander Ernest Eller, a writer and public
relations expert. James Forestall, Under Secretary of the Navy flew out from
Washington to Pearl Harbor to consult. This was a carefully worded document.
Release was delayed until June 28th allowing the Air Force to grab the early
headlines claiming credit for the victory. "
-- rest is all quite interesting,
Jim Wilkins
2015-08-29 10:55:01 UTC
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Post by jonathan
Post by a425couple
It seems to me, it is worth recalling the original stories of
Midway
that purported to be news information.
When I was looking up my dad's war history one
article about his unit had several mistakes
that seemed deliberate to prevent the enemy
from gleaning anything. From reading the article
below I get the impression the military releases
what it wants the enemy to hear.
The only high altitude heavy bomber attack
against a Japanese fleet that I know about
didn't go well at all for our side.
Our air campaign against well-defended Rabaul hasn't received as much
notice as our greater successes elsewhere.

http://www.dba-oracle.com/dive_bombing_b_17.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Rabaul_(November_1943)
"By the end of the attacks six of the seven Japanese cruisers at
Rabaul had been damaged, four of them heavily."

"Under the threat of additional airstrikes most of the Japanese
warships departed for Truk the next day, practically ending Japanese
naval presence in the area."

-jsw
Airyx
2015-09-17 15:49:17 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by jonathan
When I was looking up my dad's war history one
article about his unit had several mistakes
that seemed deliberate to prevent the enemy
from gleaning anything. From reading the article
below I get the impression the military releases
what it wants the enemy to hear.
The only high altitude heavy bomber attack
against a Japanese fleet that I know about
didn't go well at all for our side.
If I remember correctly, there were two attempts at using B-17s to bomb the Japanese fleet as they approached Midway, and neither achieved a single hit. The pilots reported several hits, but in reality there was only one near-miss on a destroyer.

However, after the their carriers were smashed, a small group of cruisers were sent to shell Midway during the night. They were then called back, and were attacked by a submarine. The sub didn't hit anything, but two light cruisers collided.

As they were limping away, B-17s took a run at them. I'm pretty sure one of the escorting destroyers took a direct hit from a B-17 dropped bomb (that was intended for the Mogami). I remember because the two destroyers that were escorting the Mogami had almost identical names...and there is a picture of it taken from the B-17.
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